מר עוקבא הוה עניא בשיבבותיה דהוה רגיל כל יומא דשדי ליה ארבעה זוזי בצינורא דדשא יום אחד אמר איזיל איחזי מאן קעביד בי ההוא טיבותא ההוא יומא נגהא ליה למר עוקבא לבי מדרשא אתיא דביתהו בהדיה כיון דחזיוה דקא מצלי ליה לדשא נפק בתרייהו רהוט מקמיה עיילי לההוא אתונא דהוה גרופה נורא הוה קא מיקליין כרעיה דמר עוקבא אמרה ליה דביתהו שקול כרעיך אותיב אכרעאי חלש דעתיה אמרה ליה אנא שכיחנא בגויה דביתא ומקרבא אהנייתי ומאי כולי האי דאמר מר זוטרא בר טוביה אמר רב ואמרי לה אמר רב הונא בר ביזנא אמר ר"ש חסידא ואמרי לה א"ר יוחנן משום רבי שמעון בן יוחי נוח לו לאדם שימסור עצמו לתוך כבשן האש ואל ילבין פני חברו ברבים
Mar 'Ukba had a poor man in his neighbourhood into whose door-socket he used to throw four zuz every day. Once [the poor man] thought: 'I will go and see who does me this kindness'. On that day [it happened] that Mar 'Ukba was late at the house of study and his wife was coming home with him. As soon as [the poor man] saw them moving the door he went out after them, but they fled from him and ran into a furnace from which the fire had just been swept. Mar 'Ukba's feet were burning and his wife said to him: Raise your feet and put them on mine. As he was upset, she said to him, 'I am usually at home and my benefactions are direct'. And what [was the reason for] all that? — Because Mar Zutra b. Tobiah said in the name of Rab (others state: R. Huna b. Bizna said in the name of R. Simeon the Pious; and others again state: R. Johanan said in the name of R. Simeon b. Yohai): Better had a man thrown himself into a fiery furnace than publicly put his neighbour to shame.
What do you think about anonymous giving? Is it the best way to give? Or not? Why?
comment #4
ReplyDeleteI love anonymous giving. I do not think it is the only riteous way to give but I think it is a fabulous way of giving. Once when in line on Christmas evening to pay the toll for the golden gat bridge someone payed for my toll as well so when I was up to the stand and ready to take my money out the woman told me that the person in front of me got me covered. It s these acts of kindness that I appreciate, I proceeded in paying for the man behind me in a way of thanking the person in front of me. It is better to give anonymously in order to keep other people from embarrassment. You do not want to humiliate the person you are giving to by sharing your name or showing your face because it is the act that is enriching and there is no need to get credit for it, by giving you are fulfilling all mitzvot.
Post # 4
ReplyDeleteIn the sense of donations and giving i think that it would make more sense for the donor to list their name, although not providing it creates for a certain ambiance between the donor and receiver. Personally, I would love to be able to thank the donor for what they had done/ given to me and truely remember them. Although i see what Dilara is saying about embarrassment, i do not think that it would be considered shameful if someone perhaps paid for your bridge toll just out of their personal generosity, since they are not aware of your financial status. The mitzvah or commandment here would be seen as just the donation and helping another person out, completely providing anonymity to the whole situation.
In addition to Dilara's point, it is also important to give tzedakah anonymously because it ensures that the receiver does not have to repay the giver in any way. If the receiver knows the giver of the charity, then he or she may feel entitled to repay them, which would ruin the act in the first place. I also want to pose a question: At what point of giving charity should a person become anonymous? At a point of giving a few dollars, or saving someones' life? Where do you draw the line?
ReplyDeletePerri #5
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dilara and Jonathan both. I conquer with Dilara's point, that giving anonymously ensures that the receiver will not feel embarrassed that they are in desperate need for tzedakah and then receiving it, because they do not have to see the giver face to face. Although, I also agree with Jonathan that sometimes, it is nice when the giver mentions their name because maybe the receiver is not in desperate need for the assistance. They therefore would not feel ashamed and would like to see the person, or get the name of the person to thank them.
Overall, I really do value the 'saintly' act of giving anonymously because it shows that the act was done truly to help the person and not for the credit. Yet, when someone gives to me, in a way, i feel bad if i don't get to thank them personally and would feel happier getting to repay the person with the appreciation i feel they deserve.
I very much agree with what Gabe said, that if you give publicly, the person you are helping may feel the urge to pay you back in some way. That is why I think that giving any type of material object, be it money or items, is not the best way to give, because there is always a possibility of the receiver finding out who the giver is. I think the best way to give is to help someone get a job and help them help themselves by teaching them a skill set, so they can be successful, and not have to beg anymore. That way, in the future, they may be able to help you in times of need.
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ReplyDeleteComment #4: I agree with most of the comments in saying that giving anonymously is a great mitzvah because you are not doing it for recognition and the receiver will not feel embarrassed. I think that if you want to help out a neighbor who is going through a rough patch, then you should give anonmyously so he will not treat you differently or feel ashamed. But when you want to help out a big cause such as donating to the Japanese Relief Effort then it should be made public to bring attention to the cause. The people in Japan that we are helping will not feel embarassed or treat us differently if we make our donations to public and when we do make our donations public, the rest of our community becomes aware of the cause and it is more likely that they will give as well. A great example of this is Beyonce Knowles, a famous actress and recording artist. When a devastating 7.0 magnitude earthquake hit Haiti last year, a lot of people were in need of supplies and aid. Knowles donated $1 million to the Clinton Bush Haiti Fund and it was made public. By making this donation, Knowles brought attention to a very important cause and made others aware of the fund. Knowles also performed at the "Hope for Haiti Now" telethon and although she didn't give money there, she performed which brought attention to the cause as well and that in my opinion is a form of giving.
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ReplyDeleteAnonymous giving is best in most circumstances for ordinary people, because having their identity concealed protects the givers. For instance, if the recipient ever found out whom they were getting charity from, they could go to them on their own accord and ask for things, which is uncomfortable for the giver. Also, if the giver was donating thinks people directly needed and a recipient found out who they were, they could ask them directly for money, which they might not spend on necessities. The only other times you would not want to give anonymously, if aren’t in need of praise, would be if you were promoting your company or the cause you are giving to. You can show people your company is generous if you have one, and if not, people are attracted to lots of money, so if they see that you are giving a lot, and are promoting giving to a certain person or cause they will join in.
I agree with Dilara’s opinion that by giving anonymously you are enriching the Mitzvah. I agree with anonymous giving because the person who is receiving the Tzedakah does not feel as though he or she is indebted to the donator. Knowing who the giver is may make the giver and receiver treat eachother differently than if the Tzedakah was anonymous. This is both good and bad because the person who gives will get the honor he/she deserves, but it could also make it so that people will donate in order to receive honor. By knowing the identity of the giver, the one receiving loses his/her pride and dignity and they would feel humiliated by being around them, therefore making the idea of anonymity in Tzedakah futile.
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ReplyDeleteA person with a lot of money, who projects a very showy attitude, might prefer to give charity directly, in order to keep a high-class reputation. However, not every single person has that much money, and the more humble people who do not have much, but still give, would rather give anonymously. They might not want the community to know they did not give a profound amount of money due to financial issues, and would like to hold on to their dignity. I personally think that someone's financial levels and charity amounts should be confidential, in order that they can give in comfort. It is possible that the person who is receiving the charity will be publicly embarrassed once they find out who is giving them money. For example, when I had my bar-mitzvah, and people sent me money, I opened a few envelopes that contained quite a big amount of money. When I read who the senders were, I was embarrassed because those people did not have that much money. In the person in need's situation, they might be even more embarrassed than I was, because they are actually asking for the money. It is always important to protect someone's pride and dignity, because being in the situation that they are in, they might already be uncomfortable and humiliated just by asking for money.
#3
ReplyDeleteThere are really two different point of views that need to be considered on this question. That of the giver, and that of the receiver. If I am the giver, I would actually like to know to whom I am giving (at least to an extent). I have worked at both the SF Food Bank, and at soup kitchens, and I get a much greater sense of satisfaction from the latter. Both jobs had me completing essentially the same task, but there was one major difference. When I worked at the food bank, I wasn’t delivering it to the people who needed it. I didn’t get to see the thankfulness on their face, and I didn’t get to see how much it really meant to that person. I didn’t get to see any of that at the food bank, only the other volunteers. However at the soup kitchen I did get to see that. I got to deliver the food directly to the person whose life it was going to improve. That is really the part that made me feel good about myself. However, some level of anonymity was still kept. I didn’t not know who this person was, what their name was, or what their story was. All I knew was what they looked like. Likewise, they knew nothing about me. It is very likely I will never see any of those people again, and even if I did, we wouldn’t recognize each other. Furthermore, someone brought up the point that the receiver might feel indebted to the giver. At the soup kitchen the receivers felt as if their help was coming from the soup kitchen, not from me, so that eliminates that problem.
Then of course, is the question of what I would want if I was the receiver. I think it would be nice to get food from the soup kitchen. At the soup kitchen, I would be able to thank whoever was giving me food, but it would not need to go any further then that. I wouldn’t feel as though I needed to do anything more to show him my gratitude. At the same time, it would be someone I didn’t know, so my fiscal position wouldn’t be getting exposed to anyone.
Every situation has details that make it difficult to apply one rule to every form of Tzedaka. Issues have been brought up about giving anonymously vs. in person, giving material objects or money, or giving personally or to an organization. Each situation will vary, but I think the one thing that people should consistently do when they give is give in the most effective way for the receiver.
ReplyDeleteIt has been brought up that giving anonymously is the highest form of tzedaka because it ensures that the giver is not giving to boost their status or use it as proof that they are a good person. However, I think if you’re giving with the intention of helping the receiver in the best way possible, then you’re giving with them in mind and can’t be doing it to make yourself seem better. This is the reason why if someone comes to you and asks for a sweater, it is better to give them a sweater than give them money- the sweater is the most effective way of helping them.
In the case of a large scale problem you want to give money to (like earthquake relief) It is more effective to give to an organization because they already have the tools to put your money to good use. By giving to an organization, you are giving anonymously- but I believe it’s a good mitzvah because you’re money is being used in the best way possible; it is not a good mitzvah because it is anonymous.
In terms of giving to a neighbor in need- the most effective way to give can vary. If they have had bad circumstances for a long time and are in no position of paying you back, it may be most effective to give anonymously because they won’t feel the need to pay you back. However, everyone in the course of their lifetime will need help in some way- be it financial support or emotional support. Although they could help you in a different form- they will most likely also want to help you back. By giving personally, you are not only giving them the money or emotional support they need, but also the opportunity to return the favor- which is another mitzvah. For example, I have volunteered by visiting senior citizens before. They still would like to help and contribute; but feel they can’t because they aren’t physically capable of it. However, what they are capable of is telling stories- so by letting them share their wisdom with you, you are actually doing a mitzvah.
In terms of emotional support- consider getting a compliment. Everyone needs compliments once in a while to feel cared for and noticed by the community. Would you rather receive a compliment anonymously or in person? You may value a compliment more based on who it is from, so in that regard it may be better to get a compliment anonymously and just know that someone out there appreciated you. However, if no one ever complimented you to your face, even if you got a bunch of anonymous compliments you would still feel disconnected. You wouldn’t have the personal connection and friendship that comes when you give personally and not anonymously.
The idea of having an anonymous giver can be nice in some situations. For the most part I agree with Perri's statement, which is: the giver will spare embarassment for the reciever if given anonymously. Money situations could, indeed be very embarassing, if you are the one in need, although i dont see how knowing who the giver is, has anything to do with the embarassment. recieving money from an anonymous doner, is a lot more comforting given the fact that you dont feel regret taking it, since you dont even have the slightest clue from who its from. If the reciever spots the giver in a coffee shop, things dont have to be awkward, if anything it should give you a reason to walk over, and thank them for their generousity. But then again, this raises another problem. As many other people have raised this problem, If we go back to the idea of the "gift" being sent anonymously, then the giver might feel uneasy living with the fact that they took money from someone and would like to thank them, at the least. but then again, in my opinion, it is the ultimate nice thing to do, by sending someone an anonymous gift, because the feeling of doing something "right" is irreplaceble.
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ReplyDeleteumber 3. I think Gabe pegged it on the head. Anonymous giving is useful for people so the receiver does not treat the giver any differently than before the donation by the giver. Boris poses a good example with the neighbor. If my neighbor gave me some sort of charity I would feel obligated to pay that person back in some way. Our relationship would change. If people do not want their relationship to change they should give anonymously. Also I agree with Dilara forms of giving can be embarrassing. People are too prideful to ask for help. If the donation is anonymous the receiver can swallow there pride easier.
Another reason people stay anonymous is for political reasons. Prop 8 donors stayed anonymous in 2008 so they would not be harassed. An article on it here: http://www.christianpost.com/news/judge-refuses-anonymity-to-prop-8-donors-36699/
I found this interesting because most people do not give publicly because they do not want to get all the positive attention. However, Prop 8 donors gave anonymously so they would not receive any negative attention. Who you are giving your money to does play a factor in whether to stay public or anonymous about your donation.
Number 3. I think Gabe pegged it on the head. Anonymous giving is useful for people so the receiver does not treat the giver any differently than before the donation by the giver. Boris poses a good example with the neighbor. If my neighbor gave me some sort of charity I would feel obligated to pay that person back in some way. Our relationship would change. If people do not want their relationship to change they should give anonymously. Also I agree with Dilara forms of giving can be embarrassing. People are too prideful to ask for help. If the donation is anonymous the receiver can swallow there pride easier.
ReplyDeleteAnother reason people stay anonymous is for political reasons. Prop 8 donors stayed anonymous in 2008 so they would not be harassed.
I found this interesting because most people do not give publicly because they do not want to get all the positive attention. However, Prop 8 donors gave anonymously so they would not receive any negative attention. Who you are giving your money to does play a factor in whether to stay public or anonymous about your donation.
An article on PROP 8
ReplyDeletehttp://www.christianpost.com/news/judge-refuses-anonymity-to-prop-8-donors-36699/
Post # 5 I agree with Ari. Anonymous giving to an unpopular cause is wrong. For example some Republican groups have anonymously funded campaign ads. These ads were very negative and controversial. The president has spoken out against these videos. I agree because these people are hiding behind these groups so people will not know that they were so mean. It is just as bad as online bullying.
ReplyDeletehttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/29/leading-democrats-form-fund-raising-group/?scp=3&sq=anonymous&st=cse
Shoshana #4. I fully agree with Borris and his points about anonymous and public giving. I never really thought about the benefits of giving publicly, and now that I have I think that in specific situations publicly giving can be just as righteous and good as anonymously giving. Anonymous giving is one of the highest degrees of giving behind helping a person to help them self which I think is the best way to “give.” (Helping a person to help them self allows the receiver to feel accomplishment and stop feeling like the need others to survive. Also helping others to help them self enables that person who has been helped to now be able to give to others.) This text compares anonymous giving to public giving. Anonymous giving is very important as it saves both parties from acting differently because of the Tzedakah transmitted. The benefits of giving anonymously are: anonymous giving permits the giver to give without feeling guilty for having more than the receiver has, it also protects the giver from others who might ask for money because they know the giver has it, etc. While anonymous giving also insures that the receiver does not feel lesser than the giver, awkward around the giver, embarrassed, or indebted to their benefactor.
ReplyDeleteHowever as Boris pointed out giving publicly to a (large organization) can be just as righteous as giving anonymously and could help the cause. I think that if someone is going to give publicly which is a respectable thing to do, that they only give publicly to a big organization like the Red Cross, UNICEF, Freedom from Hunger, etc because helping big organizations does not single individuals out and make them feel embarrassed that they “don’t have enough.” As Boris said when people give publicly it raises attention to that cause, for example, when Beyonce Knowles donated one million dollars to charity (one of the largest sums of money ever donated by an individual), it made news headlines and invaded magazines and talk shows. Beyonce’s celebrity influence had the ability to raise awareness about her charity organization, while it also prompted her followers to donate. If she had made the donation in private the issue would not have been as picked up by the media and many might not have donated. There are pros and cons of donating publicly, however when it comes to individuals and donating on a “small scale” giving anonymously is the appropriate way to go as it saves both parties from complicated emotions involved (such as embarrassment, superiority etc). But when it comes to disaster relief or big charity organizations, giving publicly can help the cause even more than giving anonymously as the givers friends, family and peers are now encouraged to give as well.
Post #5
ReplyDeleteI agree with Havneh. I think most of the people that give money wouldn’t want to tell the giver it was them who gave you money. First it’s really embarrassing for the giver because they just don’t want to tell others “yeah that was me so rich that gave that poor man money, now I feel so good about myself.” I’ve been in a situation where someone was treating me and paying for my food, and once I tried to look at the receipt, and he was offended and told me not to look. And second its embarrassing for the receiver it makes you feel that you always will have to pay back the person that gave you money. So I think anonymous donations are the best if you are in need. The giver doesn’t feel offended and the receiver doesn’t feel always in dept.
(This is Yarden Nagar I'm using my brothers computer)
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I agree with dilaras opinion and others. I personally think that giving money anonymously is better than giving the person face to face because as many people said it makes the receiver feel embarrassed and ashamed for needing money from others. Also it puts the giver in a position that can feel uncomfortable; what I mean by that is when other people know you’re donating a big amount of money to certain people like every week people would start judging you in a certain way.
Post #4 Daniella Kesel
ReplyDeleteI think anonymous giving could be good or bad depending on the situation. For example in Mar Ukba’s situation, he was giving charity for his neighbor and in that case he wanted to stay anonymous to avoid the neighbor getting embarrassed the next time they talk because it would obviously get awkward. Of course the poor man wants to know who the donor is to thank him, but in the end it’s for his own good if he doesn’t know. On the other hand if we look at a different type of donor, for example, an organ donor, I don’t think there’s any shame in donating your organs and therefore there shouldn’t be a need to stay anonymous. In the end I think it is the donor’s right to decide whether to stay anonymous or not and what ever they choose should be respected.
Jeffrey #5
ReplyDeleteI agree with Daniella where anonymous giving could be good or bad under different circumstances. People would want to give anonymously because they would want privacy, want to be seen as a regular person, or maybe even profession discretion. Giving non-anonymously has benefits because if you donate you could influence other people to donate. I think the best way is to give anonymously because I would like to for people to treat me the same, and not as some upper being that gives money. To answer Gabe's question I think that there is no line where people should start to donate anonymously, it all depends upon the person. I agree with Yarden when she says that people could feel uncomfortable or be embarrassed, that's why Mar Ukva was donating it to him.
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ReplyDeleteMany people have written and agreed with this idea that Ari and Gabe have pointed out. "Anonymous giving is useful for people so the receiver does not treat the giver any differently than before the donation by the giver."- Ari G.
ReplyDeleteFor example (like others have said) there is a reason that the JCHS financial aid students names are not posted where everyone can see because regardless if you consciously know it, your views and opinions of people can change by knowing their financial problems. I think that giving is giving and if you want attention from it with the risk of humiliating your receiver than make it public. Otherwise for the sake of the receiver ever, desecration and anonymity is key.
post 4 above
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