לֹא-תְקַלֵּל חֵרֵשׁ--וְלִפְנֵי עִוֵּר, לֹא תִתֵּן מִכְשֹׁל; וְיָרֵאתָ מֵּאֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֲנִי יְהוָה.
Leviticus 19:14 You shall not curse the deaf, nor put a stumbling-block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the LORD.
In the Talmud, this verse is explained as applying to a person who helps or causes another person to sin. What implications might that have for giving money to people who ask for it?
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ReplyDeleteWell I may be wrong but it seems like this is asking if giving somebody money that leads to them sinning is bad on the giver's part as well as the receiver's. Well I think the obvious answer would be if they know where their money is actually going, it is them sinning as well. However if they think their money is going to a good cause then they can't be held responsible if the person to whom they are giving the money uses it for drugs or something to that extent.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, it is bad to buy drugs with what little money you have. It means you don't get what you really need, and it only feeds your addiction. But if you make somebody think the money they are giving you is going to food when in reality you take it and use it for drugs, that makes it a whole lot worse. Then not only are you screwing yourself over, but you just scammed that person. You are making him unknowingly feed your addiction, and that is all kinds of bad.
#4 ^
ReplyDelete(continuing my last post)
ReplyDeleteBut like I said on the post about the pizza, being the giver, I would be willing to take the risk that he might use it for drugs instead of for food. If I give him money and he uses it for food then that's doesn't really hurt me in anyway, all I lost was a few dollars. On the other hand if I don't give somebody money that does actually need it for food, then the loss is much greater then a few dollars. He doesn't get food that he actually needs to survive, and there's no telling when he will get his next meal.
Genya #3
ReplyDeleteI agree with Eli in that I don’t think it is you sinning when you give the person money for food and they go and spend it on drugs. I think that giving someone money for a sin is a sin, and so you are technically committing a sin, but you do not know you’re committing a sin so is it a sin? It could be argued that the drug user is in fact committing two sins, one for drugs and one for scamming you, so he takes the blame for your misguided sin. But it also could be argued that you are to blame for giving money to an unreliable source, or just doing something without thinking it through. I’m not sure it’s a sin but I’m sure there is some verse in the Talmud stating to find out who you lend your money to. Also there is the point of would you rather give to a poor person in need or not give because you assume he is going to use it for drugs? Isn’t that in a way the sin too? Doesn’t it say treat your neighbor as yourself, if you saw yourself on the street you wouldn’t assume you’re a drug addict, so why assume this other man is? I conclude that it is better to give to someone and risk unwillingly sinning then to not give at all.
#4
ReplyDeleteIt is obvious that if a person buts a stumbling block in front of a blind person they are sinning. However, this act of cruelty may encourage the blind person to commit a sin aswell. After most people have an altercation they feel like getting revenge. They may take out their rage negatively with the person who hurt them, or anybody else in their daily life. The original bad person who caused the stumble is the creation of all this sin. This is similar to giving money to people for ask for it. If Bill buys drugs with the money I give him he is sinning. Worse, I helped him sin. By giving him the money I encouraged him to sin, similar to the bad stumbling block person and the blind man. However, am I a sinner if Bill said he would use the money for groceries? I thought Bill was going to use the money for food not drugs, so am I at fault? I agree with Eli, if you think your money is going to a good cause you should not be at fault. Ignorance is bliss.
I disagree with Eli with giving people money with the risk of them buying drugs. Yes, I only lose a few dollars but I am encouraging the druggy’s cycle to beg for money then use it on food. If the druggy continues this way his/her life will continue to deteriorate.
#3 I believe that if you help a person do bad things such as put a block in front of a blind person or curse at the deaf the person that helped should be equally punished. i believe that the same idea applies to money. if you could give money to a homeless person you are basically giving them access to buy drugs and alcohol. the one thing that is different about money though this homeless person might not necessarily buy drugs and alcohol but may buy something useful for them like food or water. another thing that is different between giving money and doing the sins above is that when you do the sins you are doing them on purpose but when you are giving money to the homeless person you do not know what they will buy. you are hoping that they buy something they need for survival but if they happen not to you are technically doing a sin because you are helping them do a sin.
ReplyDeletePerri #6
ReplyDeleteI fully agree with Eli. I believe that the giver is responsible for knowing where their tzedakah is going and how it assists the recipient. That way, one can be sure that the money is going to something good for the person and not just assisting them to sin. Although, it is important to differentiate between giving to an individual and giving to an organization. When giving to an individual like a homeless person on the street, one cannot fully ensure that the money is going to the things they need, such as food and other important necessities for survival. Instead, they could be spending the money on drugs and alcohol, which only feeds their addiction and makes them worse off (as Eli said)Also, the giver would then also be sinning because they are helping the person to sin. So, the only solution is to buy those specific things they need directly. This could include food, a blanket, clothes, etc. This tactic relates back to the text where the woman’s feet didn’t burn because her “benefactors were direct”. When giving to an organization, one can do something that they cannot do when giving to an specific individual person and that is following one of the highest levels of tzedakah: the giver AND the receiver is anonymous. Donating to an trustworthy organization can make it possible for the giver to know that their tzedakah is going to a good cause and the giver can also remain anonymous to the individual persons it’s going to.
Lara Prosterman
ReplyDeletePOST #4
To comment on what Nikita said, then dose that mean every time you see a homeless person that you should not give them money because they could use it for something like drugs or alcohol? I remember reading somewhere that if you give a person money it is up to them on how they spend it. Also I think it is only fair to assume the best of them, if they say they want food then it is best to assume that they are going to get food and not drugs because you don’t know if they are lying or not. But if you give a person money knowing they will use it for drugs then you are sinning. Being aware of what you are doing is a big part of doing something wrong, its like the saying ignorance is bliss.
Lara
ReplyDeletePOST #4 part 2
I agree with Perri and Eli that if you know where the money is going then it is sinning but how often are you going to strike up a conversation with a person asking for money. Most people give the money say hello then walk away.
Bonus #2, Comment #8: At this point everyone is essentially saying that if you know the money is going to drugs then it is a sin. The reality is that we almost never know whether or not the money is going to go towards food or drugs. I agree as well that I am willing to take a risk and give money not knowing where it will go because the damage caused if I don't give money is bigger than the damage I will cause if I feed his drug addiction.
ReplyDeleteAfter doing some research and reading what people say on Yahoo Answers and Answer Bag about what percentage of panhandlers use the money for drugs, I have come to the assumption that almost half of the amount of panhandlers spend their money on drugs. This may not be a reasonable assumption to make but it seems that way to me. A woman on Answer Bag said something that intrigued me, she said, "i think its a larger percentage than people want to believe." After reading that I thought of how many people give money to panhandlers just based on how much hope they have for them spending it on food and not drugs. If you would like to read more here is the link:
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1462130#ixzz1M0Sa9j9c
I also read an article about panhandlers in Seattle and the Director of a Men's shelter said something interesting. He said that giving money to panhandlers is the worst thing to do because it enables them, it makes it okay for them to sit outside the whole day because you are giving them money.
If you want to read the article, here it is: http://www.seattlepi.com/default/article/How-do-panhandlers-spend-your-money-1247218.php
Maybe the risk of possibly feeding their addiction is worse than letting them go hungry?
#5
ReplyDeleteIn addition to Genya's comment, saying that in some situations, it might be better to take a risk and give, even though you are unsure where the money will be spent; If you were on the street in that homeless person's situation, you may also be a drug addict yourself. Somehow, that person got into their situation, and took a wrong turn in which they became a druggy. So really, if it was you in the situation you would know the entire back story behind it, which, I think, would make it easier to decide whether to give the money or not. If the homeless person really wanted to be proactive, I think he or she should ask for food or necesseties instead of money, to ensure the giver(s) that they will use their charity for good, and not bad. I also want to pose a question: Is it bad to give money if you are very unwilling to? Rambam's 8 levels of tzedakah tells us that giving unwillingly after being asked is one of the lowest forms of charity. With that in mind, is it still worth it to give, and is it a sin on your part?
Samara post #3:
ReplyDeleteI agree fully with both Eli's first comment and Boris's. In a situation where one is giving to a panhandler and genuinely believes that the man/woman will use the money for their survival needs such as: food, money, clothes etc. If one knows fully well that the person will use the money for drugs or something of the sort than they are sinning by providing the person with money for it. Although if they don't know and decide not to give the money, it may be more of a sin because in this case, they are depriving a potentially hungry person from money they could've used for food. I'd also like to bring up the question of, Is it more just to compensate a person when you don't know what they'll do with the money (use it for drugs as oppose to food) or not give any money at all?
Post #6
ReplyDeleteGoing back to what Perri and Genya said I completely agree in that the giver or donor is responsible for knowing where the tzedakah is going and how it will benefit the recipient, if at all. By giving money to someone it can result in a negative and sad situation, not that it will be the case everytime. http://www.redeemingriches.com/2009/08/05/should-you-give-money-to-a-homeless-person/ As this states, one automatically assumes that the homeless or person in need will use it for something else then what they had originally asked for. In addition to what Perri stated, the giver who is giving money could think that they are helping the recipient, whereas they are using it for something "sinful" and illegal. In giving money one must be extremely careful, and observe the surroundings this person is in as well as their personal state of being. When someone portrays a person who needs money, they automatically assume that they are poor and on the brink of homelessness. In most cases this is not true, so we cannot all assume that the person who needs the money is homeless or on some sort of drug. Lastly, giving money to a person is not always bad but one should greatly think about and decide if it is the right thing to do in place of giving them an item.
Post #6
ReplyDeleteGoing back to what Perri and Genya said I completely agree in that the giver or donor is responsible for knowing where the tzedakah is going and how it will benefit the recipient, if at all. By giving money to someone it can result in a negative and sad situation, not that it will be the case everytime. http://www.redeemingriches.com/2009/08/05/should-you-give-money-to-a-homeless-person/ As this states, one automatically assumes that the homeless or person in need will use it for something else then what they had originally asked for. In addition to what Perri stated, the giver who is giving money could think that they are helping the recipient, whereas they are using it for something "sinful" and illegal. In giving money one must be extremely careful, and observe the surroundings this person is in as well as their personal state of being. When someone portrays a person who needs money, they automatically assume that they are poor and on the brink of going homeless. In most cases this is not true, so we cannot all assume that the person who needs the money is homeless or on some sort of drug. Lastly, giving money to a person is not always bad but one should greatly think about and decide if it is the right thing to do in place of giving them an item.
Shoshana Feld #6 a. I disagree with Eli and Genya. I do not think that it is okay to give money to a panhandler who might use the money abusively, in hopes of sparing them from hunger. After reading Boris’s attached article about enabling panhandlers, and seeing his last comment stating that, “maybe the risk of possibly feeding their addiction is worse than letting them go hungry,” I have come to the conclusion that giving a person money on the street when I could be fueling their addiction is not the right approach to take. As the Talmud uses God’s quote as explanation for why it is wrong to help a sinner sin, I can use it here to prove the same point regarding panhandlers. If you are to give money to a panhandler, you have a 50% chance that this person will spend the money on unintended things that may be harmful to them. To me giving money to a homeless person is like putting a stumbling block in front of the blind man, cursing the deaf man, or putting a hot coal by the hands of one who can not feel, as the giver causing the receiver to sin.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was younger, I used to insist that my parents give money to the homeless people we would see on a curbside holding a sign. My parents would only do so half the time as they reluctantly told me that these people were most likely using the money we were giving them for drugs or alcohol. This is just an assumption, an unfair one at that but is there a valuable point behind assuming that one is being dishonest/ an addict? I would not want to be the person putting the hurdle in front of a blind person/ giving panhandlers money to fuel their addiction. I remember clearly one time my mom and I went up to give a dollar to a man on the side of the road, after we left I asked why his eyes were red, and my mom answered by saying he smelled of alcohol. I felt defeated, I had just wanted to help this man as any child would have wanted but now I am learning that he may or may not be using the money we gave him for food, but he is surely using a portion of it for alcohol. By giving this man money, I had unknowingly sinned because I had not thought about the consequences of obliviously giving. I did not think about the other person as I gave, rather I just thought about the act of giving and the assumed gratification I would get from it, as I selfishly did not think about what the other person actually needed.
Shoshana Feld #6 b.I feel safe to say that a portion of the money given to a homeless person is nearly always going to things unintended by the giver and harmful to the receiver such as drugs. I feel okay making this assumption for a variety of reasons. For one, there are numerous different resource centers in each city such as St. Anthony’s (http://www.stanthonysf.org/), which provide either food, shelter, aid or all three to people in need. There is always a reason that a person is on the street whether they have mental issues, or have difficulty doing things, but I have a hard time rapping my mind around the idea that a person could have absolutely no idea how to help them self even if they are in a sticky situation. My assumption is bold and perhaps harsh not to mention a controversial and risky statement. But I chose to believe that a person standing on the street, holding a sign saying “Hungry. God Bless” can find some way to get food if that is what they really need without having to stand and wait for other people to do it for them. Food banks, meal distributors, homeless shelters etc are not hiding their services but rather promoting them avidly waiting for people in need to take their services, and perhaps some panhandlers do. I do, know that relief places do not provide drugs or alcohol and the only way for one to get that would be through money that shelters do not provide. So when I see a person on the street I correlate this person asking for money with a drug addict, asking me to help them get their next fix. I would be happy to have my “benefactions be direct,” by giving someone on the street some food, or buying them something their sign asks for, but I am not inclined to give them money, to me, I would feel like I was giving them the means to damage them self.
ReplyDeleteComment #4
ReplyDeleteaside from my opinions on being responsible for where your money goes when you give it to what you think is charity, i have a little bit of a problem with the transition between the above quote from Leviticus to the thought that if you aid someone in sinning, like you do when you give someone money for drugs, you are then sinning as well. Although i agree that it is vital to keep track of and be smart about where you give charity to, i don't know that it was quite as bad of an offense as cursing the deaf or putting a stumbling block before the blind.
i think this because when someone is addicted to a substance they are going to do whatever they can to get more of it. so consequently i dont think that it is as bad to give them money that they might use to get drugs as it is to curse the blind.
they are going to get the drugs, unfortunately, most likely, anyway. knowing this, i dont think that you could compare the two wrong doings as equal or the same.
Gary Shumakher’s #6
ReplyDeleteI think that putting a stumbling block in front of a blind man is obviously a sin, but I think this is very different from a person giving someone money. I believe if a person gives another money, it is fulfilling their tzedukah needs. Even if you give money to a rogue it is still considered a mitzvah. I think the only way giving someone else money would be a sin is if you know for a fact that the person is going to spend the money on something bad or illegal. Only in this case would you be helping the person sin. If a person asks for money to buy drugs of alcohol and you give it to him, it is helping him sin. On the other hand, if a person asks for money and you give it to him without knowing what he’s going to spend it on, it’s a mitzvah. It is a mitzvah because you don’t know what he’s going to spend the money on, it could be for a good cause of a bad cause.
I see this as another carnation of R. Elieazar giving money to the man dining on gold and silver. You can reasonably assume that the money will not be going to the cause that is advertized, however it is wrong to not give, then you will draw guilt and the lord will condemn you.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thehomelessgirl.com/should-you-give-a-homeless-person-money/
This article tells us that if you have any doubts about where the money is going, you should keep it. You don’t want to encourage sin. However this article doesn’t take into account that under Jewish principles we should give, because we need to help the needy as a community.
post 7 ^^^^
ReplyDelete#6
ReplyDeleteI think giving money to someone might be a bad thing at times because it can be an insulting act at times. Although this may be hard to understand, I think you can all relate to insulting behavior such as this, lets say there is a homeless or impoverished looking person sitting on the corner in the city, so you decide to do a nice act and give him a few dollars (I have experienced the following embarrassing interaction and I know many others have as well). You give him the money and he gets very mad yells at you because although he is homeless he does not enjoy what you just did for him because it can be insulting sometimes to think that you are the scum of the earth and that one decision that you made messed up in life ruined everything for you, and that the people out there don’t care about you and if they do they hand you some crappy food or a few dollars as if you were a child or an animal of some sort. I would be insulted, wouldn’t you?
(Levin #7-Bonus 1) I agree with Eli and Genya. If you give someone money and they spend it on drugs its not you sinning, its them sinning. Unless they specifically ask you to have money for drugs. Its like If you dive someone our car and they use it for a robbery your not responsible because you were unaware of their intentions. But if they ask you for your car and tell you they are going to rob something or someone, you are aiding and abetting a criminal and are just as much responsible as the person actually committing the crime.
ReplyDelete